Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Sure there is likely some distance between the recirculation line and the fixture which should me some time till hot water reaches. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. FREE Returns . sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. A while ago we had a plumber/friend install a Navien tankless water heater. Tankless Water Heater Breaker Size Calculator: What Size Breaker? Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? Increase water pressure at the water heater. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Its really an easy task to do. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. W2 Wire Thermostat Wiring (2nd Stage), Thermostat Wire Color Codes For 3-8 Wire Thermostats (Color-By-Color), How Many Therms Of Gas Per Month Is Normal? Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. For more information, please see our To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? So, keep reading till the end. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). Turn off the power before removing the filter. This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. House was built in late 1990s and is 2 story, built on a slab foundation. Use your pump when you want to use it. From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. Not sure I am understanding. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Answer: It really depends on your model type. Place a bucket underneath it to catch any water that drains when you remove the filter. Legal Disclosure:Lildutchuncle.com provides and shares information on plumbing, heating & air quality, home improvement, and other DIY projects. That installation is incorrect. Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. You can also identify and fix them yourself. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. We were advised of this upon installation. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. And thats a wrap! The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. Great article!! Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Hi: https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-MOMONTROL-RM11-/350575987090?hash=item519ff50992, Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. It worked perfectly. Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. Is there the same solution for NR240A? Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Call Navien and explain if yours is older. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Since pumps cost about $200 each, the recirculating pump will pay for itself in 3-4 years. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. Flush the vinegar out of your water heaters. You must log in or register to reply here. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Is this incorrectly installed? Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. Thanks! This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. Video of the Day Step 2 Check the three wires are connected to the plug terminals. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Our goal here at GridSub is to help you find viable solutions to different off-grid problems. Then turn on the heater and then your pump. Because a water recirculating pump provides us instant hot water. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. Wash it under the water with a brush, let it dry, and then place it back. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. He obtained his Bachelor of Science degree from the University Of Texas at El Paso. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. rev2023.3.3.43278. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. What disadvantages, beside cost???? What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. $257.16. Here is the list of all the parts you need to install a recirculation pump. Does the thing have a 'vacation' mode? The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. This number indicates that the water pressure is high. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. You are using an out of date browser. Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. Next, check and remove the intake filter from the heater. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. On-Demand Mode. For example, you will see Navien error code 003 on the display screen, which means the igniter is malfunctioning. Separate Recirculation Pumps. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? It provides information about the problem with the fan motor. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. 08. This may require chasing the supply lines. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Follow the steps below to clean your Navien water heater; Note: If you are unsure of your ability to handle this task, hire a professional to clean the heater. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges ; Let's hop in! Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Recirculate temp in is 67, temp out when just recirculating is 67. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!) Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. There is something wrong with limit control. If you are unsure of whether the recirculation pump was correctly installed, contact Navien technical center or the NSS agent who installed the heater. Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . $44.90. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. We don't tend to provide any plumbing advice or any advice that should come from a certified professional. Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. Or invest in a larger water heater. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Line www.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguy Milwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Light Hot Water Recirculating Loop Owen Perkins 81K views 3 years ago NAVIEN. The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. However, many first-time and beginner road travelers and RV How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch. The answer is that leftover water in the pipes has cooled over time. There is some issue with the front panel key. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. . Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. I am wondering if you have a Navilink and if you by any chance went in like I did and clicked the "disable/enable button" and turned off the schedules, I did change that - thinking it was a glitch that on first launch "enable" was showing. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. Is this correct for the function of the system? If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. Does It Save Money? That's an interesting solution. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. However, this is only a temporary fix. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). As well as any future additions, Usage of household gadgets that require hot water, Automatic dishwasher 14 gallons or 1.5 GPM, Washing machine 32 gallons to wash the clothes or 2 GPM. I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? Reinsert the filter into the plastic assembly. Then what are we waiting for? last week. You certainly dont want that, do you? Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Others run on a timer. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. We have a standard gas hot water heater with a circulating pump. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. However, the unit comes equipped with a standard 120V appliance cord and operates between 200 and 300 watts. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). This item: Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! All you have to know is how to turn it off. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? Putting one recirc line in won't turn a line and branch system into a loop system automatically. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. Working well so far. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. (42-167 Amps), How Much Propane Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. Turn the unit off. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button.
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