brodie helmet identification

The most widely recognised Air Raid Warden's helmet insignia is the two-inch high 'W'.Depending on the air raid warden's rank he would have either a black helmet with white 'W' or a white helmet with black 'W' (plus one or two one-inch bars (separated by a half-inch gap) to denote seniority within the wardens' service).However, there are a thousands of helmets from various localities with a . plant of Ford Motor Co of Philadelphia were they were painted and assembled. All helmets of this shape and form are known as Brodie helmets - even the ones manufactured abroad. This style of helmet had been in use since the 1st World War and was often colloquially known as the Tommy helmet in the UK or as the Doughboy helmet in the US. Mark 2 Belgian Clone of the British Brodie helmet. 2nd Bn. WW1 BRITISH BRODIE Helmet SOMME relic - 60.00. I looked around and could not find any listings for that steel maker. My reply to to that collector is below "If the Brodie Red stamp has the words "patent applied" then it's pre pre Aug 1916 , post Aug 1916 stamps were marked "patent no.1 18 03/16". dailyinfo[23]=' 9656 Private Isaac COOPER "A" Coy. 354.85 Buy It Now. and Gen. Hos. The helmets from both countries are so similar that often times people believe that the Spanish helmet is a German helmet. It was made of 'Hadfield steel', which could withstand the impact of some shrapnel. Lots of exciting helmets coming in the near future. and 34th Coy. dailyinfo[9]=' Boy SALEH HAJI S.S. TANGISTAN (Swansea).Indian Merchant Service who died 09/03/1915 BOMBAY 1914-1918 MEMORIAL, MUMBAI India ' These have some 115716872255 crewnail 2 years ago. dailyinfo[30]=' B/469 Worker Charles BARLOW Australian Munition Worker who died 30/01/1918 NORTH SHEEN CEMETERY United Kingdom ' I found my step-fathers fathers and grand-fathers britishbrodie helmets from ww1 and ww2. Good to see that copper rivetswere used. Twenty years of peace followed the end of the First World War before another major international conflict broke out. I suppose it also is one of the images of the start of WWII for the US with forces in the Pacific wearing it while under Japanese attack at Wake Island and Pearl Harbour. Some American helmets tend to be a darker olive color, while others have paint identical to their British counter parts. Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' JOHN THE BAPTIST, LAWRENCE AND ANN) CHURCHYARD United Kingdom ' on the American helmets they look very crudely overlapped. Specification. Pasted as rich text. Category. It could resist a shot from a pistol fired at it from point blank range. It wasundoubtedly a welcomerelief from having the helmet constantly bounce up and down on the top of the wearer skull while running across no mans land. Royal Warwickshire Regiment who died 12/03/1918 ST. H.M.S. I've not seen that stamp mark before , it's not WW1, and I don't think it is WW2, it could bepost war. dailyinfo[2]=' 8020 Serjeant Charles POOLE "C" Coy. We offer a 100% return policy. The helmet is indeed a M1917A1 shell made by ( the McCord Radiator Co ) the stamp mark ( 4B ) is a heat, or batch stampnumber used for quality control. liners in them, so it would not matter if you were to put an other makers liner in it as long as it's the same date as the shell. Royal Horse Artillery who died 16/03/1917 VARENNES MILITARY CEMETERY France ' The British Mark I has a rubber ring sometimes called adoughnut sewn between two pieces of wool in the base of the helmet dome. Yet its use did not stop there. to attach them. British Nurse Vera Brittain, http://warrelics.eu/forum/helmets/ww1-b met-16128/. The doughnut was added for the wearers comfort. He was on guard duties mostly on the rooftops of parliament apparently with Churchill quite a lot. The British 'Tommy' By (Jeff McIntosh/The Canadian Press via AP) - 2NHRH10 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors. Click to enlarge the picture 04-08-2013, 01:49 AM#4 homerj109 Re: Help Identifying Brodie Helmet I have looked on a couple brodie specialist websites and cant find anything. In 1940 a Parliamentary Home Guard unit "The Palace of Westminster Company" was established, consisting of around one hundred Members and staff of both Houses. The first letters representthe company who pressed the helmet. Both helmets are made from hardened manganese steel. on the American helmet they look very crudely overlapped. The helmet has been varnished. dailyinfo[3]=' 45 Gunner HAZURA SINGH 31st Mountain Battery Indian Mountain Artillery who died 03/03/1920 TEHRAN MEMORIAL Iranm ' Your link has been automatically embedded. Thanks for these pictures! Hello Gents, it's been a long time, but I am back with an ID request. Helmets such as this did not leave the factory this way. This is due to the split rivet shearing away from strain and the near constant moister of the Western Front. Im thinking about making a visit to the Imperial War Museum in London to show one of their specialists as it seems to be hard to find information about it. dailyinfo[12]=' 457 Lance Corporal Arthur Price ROWE 2nd/7th Bn. Available on our website now I don't think FKS has been definitively pinned down, but most sources say it represents Firth & Sons Ltd. After many experiments, Brodie came to the conclusion that a relatively simple form of helmet would offer reasonable protection, be serviceable and cheap to produce in large numbers. If solid rivets, its US. Could be Kenny, it's not a British stamp mark socould have beenmade by one of the allied countries , if, it is American then it could be a M1917AI used between 1936 - 1941, the same period the MKII chin-strap. Imperial Russian Adrian helmet. Antiques, Stamps, Coins & Militaria. Production increased rapidly in 1916 and by that summer over a million units had been produced. IMP. Here is a good thread with a posting describing the British manufacturer codes. Good, they are MK II lugs, so that puts it in theWW2 period. His full name was Kenneth George YeomanGeeson. And use of the M1 helmet did not end in 1945; far from it. As for the number/letter code, that is the code for the manufacturer and the manufacturer's lot number. dailyinfo[5]=' 12147 Private Harry COOK 8th Bn. UK. The M1 came in two parts, a hard metal shell or cap on the outside, and an inner liner hat made out of softer and more malleable materials. dailyinfo[14]=' 16511 Private Albert COLEMAN "D" Coy. Colloquially, it was also called the shrapnel helmet or Tommy helmet, and in the United States known as a doughboy helmet. Vimyridge23 April , 2010 in Uniforms,Cap Badges and Insignia. Only a few very minor details set them apart from each other. Identifying a Mk.1* British Civil Defence Brodie. He worked in Eastgate House, Exter. blunderbuss2 5 years ago. A Kevlar casque, covered in a sheath of pale-brown desert camouflage cloth, it has a neoprene olive-drab band around the helmet's lower rim, with the soldier's name embroidered on it in black.. The story, for many years I wanted a bog standard WW2 Cdn pattern helmet for my collection, mainly a display piece. Many originals show evidence of the bails being replaced. Eventually all his knowledge will be distilled in a book. They were produced Nov.1940 thru May 1941. Whether it be a small antique shop, militaria show or even an online auction. New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' You cannot paste images directly. Similarly, the cap, when turned upside down, could be used for everything from a bowl for eating to a washbasin for shaving and rinsing to a miniature bucket. Middlesex Regiment who died 25/02/1921 LADYWELL CEMETERY United Kingdom ' The Brodie helmet, called Helmet, steel, Mark I helmet in Britain and the M1917 Helmet in the U.S., was a steel combat helmet designed and patented in 1915 by the Briton John L. Brodie. If its a British helmet, could it be one provided to the Americans before American helmet production caught up? The helmet was basically an inverted bowl stamped out of a single piece of manganese alloy, which was made up of 13 percent manganese and was .036" thick. Though, my opinion is that the helmet is an American M1917. While they were initially produced from manufactured paper fibres, these models were quickly discontinued when it was realised that they degraded in short order, particularly in the tropical conditions of the Pacific War in 1942 and 1943. document.write; The American M1917 helmet shells were pressed and stamped into bowl shapes by 7 company's they were. The Both the liners and the chinstrap on the British and its American cousin are almost identical. Clear editor. dailyinfo[8]=' 13277 Labourer Klaas NERO South African Native Labour Corps who died 08/03/1917 PUGU ROAD 1914-1918 MEMORIAL Tanzania ' stepback_antiques 12 years ago. Soldiers wearing the recently issued Brodie helmet on the Western Front, 1916 More details: NAM. accross the pond,? dailyinfo[16]=' 22659 Serjeant George SNELL Military Medal "T" Bty. Are there any markings on the helmet shell - between a rivet and the brim usually? Few military helmets that have ever been manufactured are as iconic as the Brodie helmet. Category:Brodie helmets. In all around 900,ooo of these helmets were made by McCord's. I need help identifying some markings on the second world war brodie. After 1936 a new helmet was produced by McCord Radiator Co, the helmets were stamped with 1 or 2 digit numbers, and 1 letter on the rim, all the helmets have the same paint and texture when in factory condition unlike the modified. June 9, 2018 in dailyinfo[16]=' 22659 Serjeant George SNELL Military Medal "T" Bty. Moreover, many Commonwealth nations and other countries associated with Britain such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa began producing their own versions in the interwar years, while adapted versions of the Brodie were also used in some civilian settings in Britain, notably by the police and fire brigade. Powered by Invision Community, US WW1 and WW2 Brodie Helmets and Maker Stamps. In the years after the end of the war the American Infantry Board tested a number of new models, but each of these were deemed to not mark any real improvement on the earlier design. Brodie helmets - How to identify By depaor01 4 January , 2013 in Uniforms,Cap Badges and Insignia depaor01 Old Sweats 2.2k Location:Dublin, Ireland Posted 4 January , 2013 Could somebody post a beginner's guide to what exactly a Brodie helmet is, if there was any other type of British helmet in WWI, and how they differed from WW2? This was the American M1 helmet, arguably the most iconic and recognizable military helmet produced in modern times. I have had a good look at your helmet again and managed to find another one to compare,This is an American, Here is a British made helmet from the same period, look at the rim joint how clean the joint is put together, now take a look at the rim joints. dailyinfo[20]=' 10259 Private Charles BUCHANAN 1st Bn. Colloquially, it was called the shrapnel helmet, battle bowler, Tommy helmet, tin hat, and in the United States the doughboy helmet. loop/lug was first used on the British MKI* and MKII helmets. 25.00 1 bid 5.35 postage 5d 19h Click & Collect Repro British Army WW2 Plastic Helmet Tommy Doughboy Brodie Style WWII Soldier 12.99 Click & Collect Free postage never received helmet covers while in France. 5min video no sound date 1918 Military helmets manufactured at a factory in USA. Is it a BEF or US helmet? Thus, over a quarter of a century it had seen widespread service from the trenches of northern France in 1915 to the flight from that same region twenty-five years later, an action which ensured that Britain could continue the fight against Nazi Germany. Originally this was a hard-hat like support which was designed to fit inside the steel cap, offering comfort, support and an extra layer of protection. In fact they all look the same to me apart from the liners 5 seconds on the google http://thebrodiehelmet.weebly.com/. Royal Marine Light Infantry who died 17/03/1918 BELLAVISTA OLD BRITISH CEMETERY Peru ' When the First World War erupted in the autumn of 1914 all of the major powers were lacking any type of military headgear which could offer effective protection in the face of modern warfare and weaponry. The stamping on the underside of the rim reads: G.S.W. Tom.Delahoyde dailyinfo[14]=' 16511 Private Albert COLEMAN "D" Coy. The design was esentially the same in WW2, but there are a number of specific differences between the two and once you recognise these differences, such as the width of the brim (wider in WW1), you find you can tell one from another very easily. New user here. HEAT STAMP 626A. 1st Bn. Powered by Invision Community, Second World War British Brodie Helmet Identification, Helmets- mainly WW2 British and Commonwealth, both Civil Defense and from field service. The final push in using the Brodie was a variant which was produced in 1936 and which saw widespread service by the Norwegians during the German invasion of their country in the spring of 1940 and by the British Expeditionary Force in France several weeks later. dailyinfo[10]=' 14780 Member Ida Styles HUGHES (Oxford) Womens Royal Air Force who died 10/03/1919 OXFORD (ROSE HILL) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. Accordingly the main actors in the war quickly began developing new headgear. I'll ask about the bail rivets. No criticism of you, however the term 'brodie' is a silly collector's term which has no historical precedence (a chap called Brodie designed an early helmet which . Pity the liner is missing can you tell me what shape are the chinstrap loop/lugs, are they square or have. Its service history within the US armed forces spans a period of over forty years, being the standard issue military headgear for American soldiers between 1941 and 1983 and inspiring imitation models around the world. I'm posting them as quick as I can wrap them up, Haven't tweeted in a while. I suppose it also is one of the images of the start of WWII for the US with forces in the Pacific wearing it while under Japanese attack at Wake Island and Pearl Harbour. It looks like it's stamped 'JSS' above the date marking, which is the maker's mark for Joseph Sankey & Sons Ltd, who produced helmet shells from 1938 to 1941. SHIPPED TO "MRS. C DeSIMONE" IN MARCUS HOOK PENNA" FROM HER HUSBAND "PFC JOE . BlackWatch 5 years ago. var dailyinfo= new Array(31) McCord Radiator, Ford Motor Company were both known to have made P17s, but there wereundoubtedly more. It's easy! He said it has a separate rim and a serial number of ZA57. WW1 Brodie Helmet - posted in Fallout 4 Mod Requests: Has anyone considered making a WW1 Brodie Helmet for Fallout 4? Although to the untrained eye the helmets may look the same, it in the small details where the differences may be observed. The use of a thicker bail and steel rivet to secure the holder would have minimized the chance of the bail coming lose during combat. colour is the paint finish of the helmet, in the photo it looks blue/grey ?. Easiest well to tell if the shell is Brit or US is by how the chin strap bails are held in place. Keeping a village shop going, Upcoming changes to logging in - click here, GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. dailyinfo[27]=' 5778 Private William CUMMINGS 6th Bn. Sign up for a new account in our community. Sorry for the long post and thanks for any info you can give me. The American shell is heavier. The cover was made from the same type of cloth the sand bags the held up the trench wall were made of. This difference along is enough identify the origin of the helmet. In addition, the heads of soldiers had relatively greater exposure than other body areas above the parapets in the European trench warfare of that period, and the British "Brodie" helmet and the nearly identical U.S. Marine Corps Doughboy helmet gave insufficient protection to the back of the skull (in contrast to the protection afforded by . The M1 was only finally replaced as the standard issue military helmet for the United States armed forces in 1983, over forty years after it first entered mass production. dgirardin 11 months ago. var month=mydate.getMonth()+1 Northamptonshire Regiment who died 14/03/1915 LE TOURET MEMORIAL France ' dailyinfo[1]=' Staff Nurse Edith Mary CAMMACK Associate of the Royal Red Cross, 2nd Class 4th Southern Gen. Hos. The U.S. produced over 2.7 million Brodie helmets by the end of the war. OPB I now think the 3 letters on the fromt is actually D then a Crown then the letter H. Also after cleaning the helmet i have found the liner manufacturers: Vero 2 = Everett.W.Vero & Co London.1937 - 1944, Very interesting Tom, if it is a crown then the letters could stand for Department Head to show he was the top. I'm putting in a picture. There is also a drill hole on rear of the brim. The Brodie had also been employed in this way by the British in the inter-war period. They also have a similar liner and chinstrap. dailyinfo[10]=' 14780 Member Ida Styles HUGHES (Oxford) Womens Royal Air Force who died 10/03/1919 OXFORD (ROSE HILL) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' Worchester Pressed Steel Co - Worchester - Massachusetts. America ended up purchasing roughly 400,000 Brodie helmets from the British and produced over 2,700,000 M1917 helmets by the war's end. These will comfortably fit a head size 57-58 cm, or a tight 59. There are some small differences though, one being British chinstrap have stamped steel or brass slide buckles while the Americans favored cast steel slide buckles. Original Item: One-of-a-kind. The asbestos pad is quite safe it is only the thickness of thick paper, my only doubt is the chin strap mounts they are, riveted the British used split pins. Thus, in one guise or another it shaped the design of military helmets all over the world for much of the twentieth century. Liner Fibre M-1. Lincolnshire Regiment who died 05/03/1916 CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES France ' Clear editor. Copyright Treasure Bunker Ltd Brodie Steel trench helmet Identification marks Remembered Today: 1081780 Sapper Bedford Stanley LONG "D" Coy. I believe they were numbered 1-24. It was made of mild steel originally, but this was quickly dispensed with and a harder type of steel was introduced alloyed with manganese, a mixture known as Hadfield Steel after its developer, the English metallurgist, Sir Robert Hadfield. I need your help to identify this helmet shell. Why I speak of our Canadian Great war forumyou know, us Canadians? Very Solid condition. 2nd Bn. Classic cars Should I get a replacement liner and chinstrap or just leave it as it is? With 'COMET ABL 56' printed inside. I think I'll be doing more Vietnam stuff. Designed to protect from shrapnel shells bursting overhead, it could be pressed from a single sheet of hardened steel, but left the lower parts of the head less protected. Me and a mate found. The most obvious difference may be observed by turning the helmet over. Although a few American troops did manage to get a hold of covers by in large the A.E.F. Here's how to install a American M17 helmet liner video part 1 and 2. I am pretty sure the ww2 helmet was worn protecting/ patrolling the British Houses of Parliament after he was injured in standard service. FOR SALE! Failing this, simply search on this forum under Brodie and you should find a wealth of information etc. WW1 Canadian British CEF BEF Brodie Helmet & Liner. 4th Bn. The last issue chin strap was introduced in FM 21-15 by 1972 . British Mark I Brodie Helmet. Paste as plain text instead, Helmets and Headgear. It it worth noting that while British servicemen were never issued with American helmets, American service men were issued British helmets. dailyinfo[13]=' 37643 Sapper Thomas John ECCLESTON Tunnelling Coy. The Brodie helmet was designed by John Leopold Brodie, a Lithuanian entrepreneur and inventor who had first made his fortune working the gold and diamond mines of South Africa in the 1890s and 1900s and had then moved to Britain. The letter which follows the slash representsthe company who rolled the steel provide for the helmet. It's a little difficult to provide much information from just a picture. Here is an image ( sorry for bad quality) Royal Engineers who died 31/01/1919 COLOGNE SOUTHERN CEMETERY Germany ' The bail holder is secured to the helmets skirt by way of a steel split rivet. It was also used regularly for cooking or heating up food, though the practice was discouraged, as over time it made the metal more brittle and the helmet less effective at protecting the wearer if he was shot in the head. 3rd Bn. The steel cap could not be used without the liner, but the liner could be worn on its own and indeed was regularly employed for this purpose in ceremonial settings within the army, or as protective headgear in civil society, by, for instance, policemen and fire brigades. A heat stamp of 50A with an 'S' beneath it on a Schlueter manufactured helmet. The buckle and loop clamps of the initial issue of this chinstrap were painted green. The British bail design proved to be too weak for the rigors of the trenches. 5th Bde. inspection stamp mark I've seen them before on liners. dailyinfo[15]=' SS/342 Able Seaman Henry George SMITH (RFR/CH/B/5534). If it is red paint then I would agree with Colin that fire serviceis likely, perhaps even from an RAF base. Then, a man named John Leopold Brodie designed the first helmet model here in the United Kingdom. ( ZA-Marks belong to the Crosby Manufacturing Co. ), ( ZB-Marks are thought to belong to the Worchester Pressed Steel Co. ), ( ZC-Marks belong to Edward. var year=mydate.getYear() Depots simply would repaint helmets where the paint had lost its anti-reflective properties with an extremely heavy gravel finish. dailyinfo[7]=' Lieutenant Thomas Sydney Ough DEALY Australian Flying Corps who died 07/03/1918 STONYHURST COLLEGE BURIAL GROUND United Kingdom ' "We Cannot Always Buy What We Want, But We Buy What We Can". I need help identifying some markings on the second world war brodie. dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. He was the head ofthe South-West ministry of publics works. The development of a replacement model, the Mark II, and its widespread distribution from 1940 onwards meant that the evacuation from Dunkirk was one of the last military campaigns during which the original Brodie was worn extensively by British troops.